[ETA 9/5][Cloud USA editorial] Omo! Looks Like Busan Woman has a House in Detroit!
— Written jointly by: Terri :-} and Stephe ^@@^, Managing Editors
{*Edited to Add 9/5/2011 by Stephe: Well. I think the resounding silence says it all. And sometimes silence is the BEST policy in the celebrity world. Just because you speak doesn’t mean people won’t take what you said and run with it in a whole other direction that makes things even worse. An unfortunate truth when it comes to humans.
The fact that neither Rain nor Saadiq themselves (nor the supposed “accuser”) have added anything to this matter, and the fact that Rain mentioned in his Busan Section TV interview that “Busan Woman” could be classified as soul music, says to me that things have possibly been taken care of OR possibly were taken care of between these two parties from the start. A newspaper with a notorious reputation for living just to stick it to Rain was who stirred the pot to begin with, and that right there gives the “controversy” even LESS credibility.
We were right to let this crap die.
Up and until Saadiq makes any kind of statement (IF he does so at all), I’m not blaming Rain for a darned thing.
If Saadiq never says a word, then Rain has been treated terribly yet AGAIN. ^@@^}
—
ORIGINAL POST
Yes, sir. It looks like that pretty little Busan woman has been mighty busy these days.
Or has she?
According to Korean news outlets all over the Internet, Rain is being accused by someone somewhere (by whom, we aren’t quite sure, but we’re waiting with bated breath to find out) of composing his new song, “Busan Woman,” by borrowing heavily from Raphael Saadiq’s song, “Detroit Girl.”
For those of you who don’t know, Raphael Saadiq is an extremely talented American singer, songwriter and producer who has been working in the music industry here in The States since 1984, when he played bass for Sheila E’s band (look it up). He is a Grammy award winning producer and has worked with artists like Stevie Wonder, Earth, Wind & Fire, Prince, Mary J. Blige, John Legend, Whitney Houston, Erykah Badu, and…well, you get our drift.
According to one of Rain’s associates, the accusations are ridiculous and unfounded. However, the only differences the representative could conjure up between the two songs were the tempo and the fact that the two songs were of the same genre.
There is some validity to the argument that music of the same genre follows similar patterns. In fact, all music contains patterns, and algorithms have been used to compose music for centuries. Still, completely ignored in Rain’s defense were the obvious similarities between the two songs, such as the introductory hook, bridges and chord progressions.
You think we’re kidding? Okay, listen for yourself. Here’s Rain’s Busan Woman.
(Courtesy of Rainsaraghaebi625 on YouTube)
Now, here’s Raphael’s Detroit Woman…
(Courtesy of soulcaz on YouTube)
All we have to say after listening to these two songs together is this: Rain definitely has some ‘splaining to do.
Are the similarities enough for Busan Woman to be considered plagiarism? We don’t have a clue. We are not experts in musical plagiarism, nor do we pretend to be. So, it will be people much wiser than us who will determine whether or not Rain and/or his co-composer plagiarized “Detroit Girl.” If the law determines that they are guilty of plagiarism, then Rain and his co-composer will suffer the consequences—as well they should.
Rain is so talented and so very resourceful that we cannot believe that he would ever purposefully resort to plagiarizing another musician’s work. Still, with the plagiarism virus running rampant in the K-Pop industry for years now, with songwriters copying other artists’ work left and right (I.e., Hyori’s H-Logic), it boggles our mind that Rain would leave his ass so uncovered that he would end up collaborating with yet again another potential copycat songwriter? What the hell?
We would think, with all the charges that have been leveled at K-Pop songwriters over the past several years, that artists would be more skittish about where their songwriters are getting material from and go over that material with a fine tooth comb. Why doesn’t this seem to be more of a concern? And who is this particular songwriter who thought he/she could possibly get one over on someone at the level of Raphael Saadiq? Seriously?
Does it sound like we’re pissed off? We are. This is the last thing Rain needs at this juncture—a smudge across his career and a bad taste left in his fans’ mouths just as he departs for the military for two years. We’re furious. BUT: Everyone makes mistakes. That’s what being human is all about, and as long as we learn from those mistakes and don’t repeat them, then the experience wasn’t for naught.
No, we’re not kicking Rain to the curb for a lapse in judgment (how silly would that be?). But we do want him to take some serious learning away from this lesson about watching his people, covering his butt, and not letting this happen again. He has lived his career cleanly and with good character, which is why we’ll continue to stand with him. Character goes a long way, in our book.
When there is a proper statement from RAIN (and not only a representative) or something other than speculation and rehash by the Media concerning this matter, we’ll be sure to bring that to you.
In the meantime, let’s continue to show him lots of love and support, because he deserves it.
Thanks, Clouds and Rain fans.
— Terri :-} and Stephe ^@@^ , Co-Founders
Cloud USA 
Ok well I listen to both songs, and I have to say they do sound alike…too much alike, down to the riffs in the songs, the baseline and just the whole damn melody. You see this is what happens when artists hire song writers that are desparate to work just to make money or to please the artist. Rain is a very smart man I’m sure this past. In the meantime, Rain please have your staff research or the people working close to you, dig a little deeper. I say this with passion and conviction, your American Fans love you and you’ve worked too hard for far too long. Forever your Fan…Crystal
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Shocked and disappointed as well… Rain needs to clear things up…
he is a world star,, if he did it on purpose let us know (like he did this only for cover)
but Raphael Saadiq never bring this on surface~ confused too
ah time will reveal~
still love him though
great article^^
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Thank you @Kongsao for responding to my question. However, I am still confused. So can someone tell me if the song is about his fans or his encounter with a beaufiful women from Busan?
Can someone please tell me if I have the correct meaning of Rain’s Busan Women song. Based on what Rain said during his rising star interview on 8-14-11 I thought he said he made the song thinking about a beautiful women he met in Busan while there for his work perviously. I know he dedicated the song to his fans and was only going to sing it to the fans who came to his concert to show his appreciation. However, based on what he said in the interview and the lyrics of the song I thought the song was about a women and not about his fans. I know the song can be applied to anyone of his female fans. But I thought the original meaning was about his experience or encounter with a beautiful women from Busan.
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Hi, flower. 🙂
You’re confusing yourself a bit. You said it right. It’s ABOUT a beautiful woman encounter, and he’s DEDICATING/GIVING it to his fans. (When you dedicate something to someone, it’s not necessarily about them. You’re making a GIFT of it to them in their honor, though it might be ABOUT somebody else.)
Stephe ^@@^
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Thanks Stephe for the reply. I became confused about the meaning of the song when I read another comment posted here that said the song was about his fans. I too thought the meaning of the song was about a beautiful women encounter based on what he said. Also, I originally understood just like you he was dedicating/giving the song to his fans. It was like a gift to honor them to show his appreciation to his fans. That the song was not about the fans but about the beautiful women he encountered in Busan. Thanks again I am no longer confused.
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Dee said this in the comments earlier:
“Also for all the hoopla going on Saadiq’s camp is not crying foul at this point. From what I understand there is an unknown contributor to this song who could very well be Saadiq. Detroit Woman was recorded in 94 and was not a hit however, Busan Woman is a hit. If Busan Woman was inspired by Detroit Woman it sounds like a win for Saadiq and Rain and is a successful blend of the two cultures.”
Very intriguing and well-stated, Dee.
It is way too quiet, and it could indeed be that things are being taken care of (or HAVE been taken care of) behind the scenes between everyone the way it should, and that will be the end of that. Which means that there will be no taint on Busan Woman either way you look at it.
The Media got us all screeching, good for them, now we should just take our cue from Rain and let the hoopla die on down.
WOW, I for one think that a Rain/Saadiq blend in the future would be FABULOUS!
Stephe ^@@^
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Terri, Diva somethings wrong with the purer again! I thought once I got in finally for my comment I was all good? NOT! And I can’t open Twitter either. So back to shop! F! I don’t get it?
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Oh noooo, Lotus. Not the computer again. Gah, so sorry…! 😦 The Internet has been a real B!#ch this week, and still is for me anyway, so maybe it could be that?
Stephe ^@@^
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IDK Stephe? But I’m going to try it again in the morning, if its still the same I’m taking it in. 😦
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Can someone please tell me if I have the correct meaning of Rain’s Busan Women song. Based on what Rain said during his rising star interview on 8-14-11 I thought he said he made the song thinking about a beautiful women he met in Busan while there for his work perviously. I know he dedicated the song to his fans and was only going to sing it to the fans who came to his concert to show his appreciation. However, based on what he said in the interview and the lyrics of the song I thought the song was about a women and not about his fans. I know the song can be applied to anyone of his female fans. But I thought the original meaning was about his experience or encounter with a beautiful women from Busan.
So can someone tell me if the song is about his fans or his encounter with a beaufiful women from Busan?
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@flower
i think Busybee1982
have said beffire and i just going to pase here again
Rain explained his Pusan Lady as a personal experience and a song dedicated to his fans. has fans winked, whispered and smiled at him?
(i have a trove of youtube vids that tell me yes and fan blogs that reveal encounters with him where fans have done exactly what he sings about)-so the words to his song are not stolen. he mentions countries that he’s been in LA(have u seen the vid of the fans waiting in the parking
garage to catch him), NY(or how about the airport, bookstore, concerts), PARIS(fans at the ifel tower), TOKYO(fans, fans and more fans), and Pusan (this is real experiences for him)….then he goes on to sing about what he feels and the thoughts that are going on in his mind concerning what he sees from fans. both these songs messages are totally different. the other song talks about the wish to take a lady from Chicago to his apartment or go to her apartment and different States are noted in the US which in essences seem to be saying i don’t care where the lady lives, just let me go to your place or you come to mine.. seems to me that the differences are easy to determine. one is based on actual fact and experience and the other is based on a wish. so even the ideas are different, the words are different. as for the melody, i read Pusan Lady has 3 tempos whereas Chicago Girl as 2. so as far as i am concerned he as not plagiarized anything. and just because they have a similar rythumn doesn’t equate to stealing.
and i am AGREED with her 100%
in the ‘THE BEST SHOW and plau busan sining he state how he felt and all his experince been all this gril are wink ect… at him
ENG SUB _RAIN (bi) [THE BEST SHOW] Talking & Sing “Busan Women”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RdwcfJvtqE&feature=related
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@ BiA and everyone else:
Totally agree with you, BiA… It’s funny how people say s*@t happens, and yet if someone borrowed the melody and some phrasing from Rain’s, let’s say… Rainism, his fans would be up in arms and there would be no half stepping or, “Oh well…” kind of attitude on that. They would be on that person like white on rice, just like Mblaq fans were on that South American woman that “borrowed” from “Oh Yeah” with a quickness. They let her have it and did not give her any quarter until she (half a@sedly)apologized.
I’m sorry but whoever claims to not hear the simliarities between the two songs is being facetious. You only have to listen to the song for 10 seconds to get it.
Here’s an example. It’s not the best I could come up with but here ya go. I think Rain’s song How to Avoid the Sun is similar sounding in some respects to Sting’s Fragile, and I’ve always thought so. It’s part of the reason why I love How to Avoid the Sun so much.
If you listen from :22 you’ll hear what I mean.
http://youtu.be/iJ1ZgcodIzU
Are they exactly the same? Nope… Do I think his producer at the time borrowed a little from Sting? Probably… Do I fault Rain’s producers? Nope… both songs are beautiful and, in this case, How to Avoid the Sun seems like an homage to Sting’s song. Rain’s producers borrowed from Sting and then took it in a totally different direction. The difference between that and the Busan Woman/Detroit Woman deal are that it seems to me that, even though the lyrics are (mostly) different, the backing tracks sound a lot alike and the whole calling out of Busan woman in the beginning/middle of the songs are pretty the same. There’s a difference between sampling/paying homage and taking a song, just making a few things different and calling it your own. If you have to get into the whole 2 beats/4 beats semantics thing, there’s a problem. When you throw in the added, “I’ve never heard of Raphael Saadiq,” comment, I have to call bs on that. Raphael S. is an EXTREMELY well known singer/songwriter/producer. If you were listening to music in the 80s I’m SURE you’ve heard of Toni, Tony, Tone. If you don’t know them by name, I guarantee you’ve heard some of their songs. If you are in the global music industry and you’ve listened to enough neo soul to make a neo soul song, then yeah… you know who Raphael S. is. He was one of the first neo soul-ers, if not the first (anyone remember Lucy Pearl?). That’s the thing that annoyed me the most about this issue. The fact that Jtune just tried to brush it off all cavalierly, like it wasn’t a big deal. It’s a big deal to me, as it should be to anyone that would be mad if the same thing happened to Rain.
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Thank you my sista! I thought I was the only one irked by the “dismissive air” of this situation. I agree 110% with what you said. I don’t care if it is Rain, these two songs sound damn near like an “echo” in an empty room and like you and Stephe, it only took the first few seconds of listening to each one to realize it. Yes, I do remember Lucy Pearl’s “Dance Tonight” and also remember “Born Not To Know”, “Hey, Little Walter” and “If I Had No Loot” by Tony! Tone! Toni!. Raphael Saddiq is not an unknown artist, not by a long shot! You know, I make a LOT of crazy comments about Rain……most in good old fashioned lustful fun, but I am not So Enamored of him that I can’t call into question things he may do that don’t seem right. If honest mistakes were made, they should be addressed…..don’t wait, clear it up as soon as you possibly can so you can go on with life. I think he forgets sometimes (or so it appears) that he now has a Broader fanbase, so what May Not matter to Korean fans, matters a helluva lot to your NEW American ones and those fans’ concerns should be met (if possible) as well, as time would allow of course. We KNOW you’re busy Boo!
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BiA my sister and ALL clouds: BiA I’m not pissed at JiHoon if in fact he did wrong than he needs to correct it, now by saying this I also need to say Diva and I talked a little when this came out and I also sent Terri some pm. So I’m in no way dismissive of this issue like some clouds have been and some have been damn right disrespectful and condescending. YEAH I SAID IT!
But I’m wondering why Rapheal S. or his camp has not come forward? I’m wondering if JiHoon and he have not already even before the song was even written had an arrangement?
I mean what better way to mess with Rain than to cause problems with his clouds? I also would like to know just who started this sh#t? I think before someone says something they can’t take back WE ALL need to STOP! right here and wait so see what happens. We don’t know JiHoons business arrangements.
JiHoon doesn’t seem to be worried he’s tweeting on a regular and as Stephe and Terri has said and I believe to be true this man is smart and knows his business.
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@Lotus
i agreed with that what i would though as well i am NOT in anyone side of this either but i prefer to let Ji Hoon took care this matter if he make mistake just saying then let him fix ASAP but I think before someone says something they can’t take back WE ALL need to STOP! right here and wait so see what happens. We don’t know JiHoons business arrangements.
JiHoon doesn’t seem to be worried he’s tweeting on a regular and as Stephe and Terri has said and I believe to be true this man is smart and knows his business.
and u know even Bussybee1982 have said too so TO ME !!
EVEYBODY let JUST STOP this matter and give a week and see what the outcome is instead of more topic and dush the man out we all don’t what very is happen right now behind JTune either why keep go on for such and all if the man is sue by this then we can said it is his fault but i don’t see is issue yet across this Busan Women yet near Rain told us what happen either as matter fact i respect Raphael SaddI for know as a very popular artis and celeb back day but for now can we all just STOP and see what happen first i am not his fans and i will still supporting him and also think it wasn’t his fault it this was browning it could be his co producer who know!! am just saying !!
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Lotus,
I’m gonna respond to you because you, I feel, gets me at Cloud USA In Addition to a few others here. I will say this and I’m done on this issue. Yes “I” am all talked out about it. My hope is that Ji-Hoon and Raphael did make prior arrangements….SQUARE “BIDNESS” was handled and each camp is happy. I HOPE that is the case. However, when you “court” a whole new demographic of fans and then you do something professionally and it is made to “look like” improprieties have taken place which would in turn seemingly insult this New demographic you are trying to reach, a dismissive attitude is not one that should be put forth (or so it seems) by the entertainer or his management staff. That’s #1) SECOND, if indeed Private agreements have been made and each camp is all “happy, happy” then why not quiet the “roar” of the crowd by saying so Publicly, do you have to…NO, but it can’t hurt. THIRD, as wonderful and beautiful and fine and sexy and talented and smart and “all around sh#t don’t stink” as I think Ji-Hoon may be, I will never, EVER think this man is above reproach on matters “I” feel need addressing…..EVER. If someone wants “my” respect, then I must feel like it’s deserved (from MY perspective) and I would expect Nothing Less From Myself as well. LASTLY, if Ji-Hoon is truly serious about growing his fanbase and widening his entertainment opportunities, as has been stated, time and again…..then act like it dammit. When you hear about Major dissatisfaction amongst “the people” SQUASH IT….Quick, don’t let your reputation get “lost in translation.”
NOW, I’m done……..Ji-Hoon ain’t paying me to wash his “dirty drawers.”
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Hahahahaha oh my sista BiA, I do love you so and I agree with you. However his rep made a statement and said it wasn’t and I know it wasn’t good enough but also I try to give everyone a chance to redem themselves. And their could be many things at play here we truly don’t know and he may not be able to go into yet? And lord I pray he does make a statement on it and not his rep so we all are satisfied. Also when I was in my teens and twenties I was very quick tempered blindingly so I’ve seen and been through things that most only read and watch, by saying that I’m trying to say I have mellowed out and I let things roll off my back more now its less stressful. But I tell you this this week on fb someone added me to a group and when I opened my page their was a group pm and I was told they wanted me dead because I’m not Muslim and they wanted to kill me. No sh#t! Now I’m not ignorant and I know not all Muslims are like this and its not their teachings also it was only 4or5 in this pm. But still this I reported hell this I cannot forgive. Also I could careless of JiHoons looks it has nothing what so ever to do in my decision making and frankly if Stephe remembers I looked him up mainly for the rap tune in the beginning of ninja assassin, and it went from there. God yes I love to look at gorgeous men but hell there’s a lot of gorgeous me sister. And his dirty drawls Hahahaha girl help I’m not washing either nor wiping his dirty @ss hehehe And trust me sister I do get were your coming from. But like I said I just don’t want anyone to get completely out of pocket. Oh and just one other thing hell naw he’s not above reproach. Everyone in my eyes are on an equal playing field. Baby unless your God you are no better then me. Looks come and go and money its just paper.
And my puter is knocked out again! Damn I’m just not computer sauve.
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*Kekekekeke*…….summon the royal Wipers! (*scene from Coming to America*). HA! no @ss wiping here Jack! (SMILES). Hey, I’m cool. But girl the FB thing….W-H-A-T??! This is why I don’t do too much on these social sites. I’m not that social media savvy either, so…………….
Anyway, I hope you get your computer fixed soon so we can gawk at some more Ji-Hoon….Damn Him! (SMILES)
P.S. you’re right he’s not the only pretty face out there try Modelsofcolor.tumblr.com….THANK you very much! Later, Sis! (SMILES)
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I agree, if it turns out that some borrowing has occurred, the best and the honorable thing to do is to fess up to the mistake, appologize and give Saadiq his cut. I by no means believe it was done intentionally on Bi’s part (he has really got to screen his people better) I also agree that it is a mistake to downplay Saadiqs success and his contribution to the music world. He’s been around since Tony, Toni, Tone and is considered one of our more creative and successful artists.
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I’m going to set all the legal definitions of everything and all the stuff the law may or may not have to determine over in a corner, because whereas I do have an informed opinion on what the law means, unless I’m in that field I can’t say de-fi-ni-tive-ly how a COURT will interpret the law, if it even gets that far. So that’s over there.
It took me less than ten seconds of just listening to Saadiq’s version to know that there was a problem. It ain’t rocket science. The songs (meaning the music, NOT lyrics) are not the same but they are waaaaay. Too. Similar. Point blank.
Do I think Rain purposely did this? NO. Of course not. This fan site wouldn’t exist if I thought he was that type of person.
Do I think that, in the Big Picture, the controversy will do irreparable harm? NO. Not at all. Though it certainly doesn’t help, when there are people out there just waiting to use stuff like this to make his life hell.
Am I an Anti- because I’m talking this way? NO. I just don’t have a problem saying when I see that something is off.
I for one am going to move along and let any legalities take care of themselves (IF any), because one thing I do know is that JiHoon will survive none the worse for wear. He will. He is destined for greater things to come, and he’s not going to let anything stop that. I can trust him on that!^^
I also know that if the shoe were on the other foot and someone released a song waaaaaay similar to Rain’s, hairs wouldn’t be being split. Rain fans would immediately be on that person like a ton of bricks. Heheh. 😉
Stephe ^@@^
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(SMILES)…………………………………….
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Plagiarism…what does the word mean? i looked it up in Webster’s Dictionary/Roget’s Thesaurus and in Webster’s 7th New Collegiate Dictionary…’to steal and use “as one’s own” (the ideas, words, etc of another)’… Rain explained his Pusan Lady as a personal experience and a song dedicated to his fans. has fans winked, whispered and smiled at him?
(i have a trove of youtube vids that tell me yes and fan blogs that reveal encounters with him where fans have done exactly what he sings about)-so the words to his song are not stolen. he mentions countries that he’s been in LA(have u seen the vid of the fans waiting in the parking garage to catch him), NY(or how about the airport, bookstore, concerts), PARIS(fans at the ifel tower), TOKYO(fans, fans and more fans), and Pusan (this is real experiences for him)….then he goes on to sing about what he feels and the thoughts that are going on in his mind concerning what he sees from fans. both these songs messages are totally different. the other song talks about the wish to take a lady from Chicago to his apartment or go to her apartment and different States are noted in the US which in essences seem to be saying i don’t care where the lady lives, just let me go to your place or you come to mine.. seems to me that the differences are easy to determine. one is based on actual fact and experience and the other is based on a wish. so even the ideas are different, the words are different. as for the melody, i read Pusan Lady has 3 tempos whereas Chicago Girl as 2. so as far as i am concerned he as not plagiarized anything. and just because they have a similar rythumn doesn’t equate to stealing. the other issue i wonder about is who started this? i read that Sports Seoul wrote this article and then it was picked up by allkpop and the from there the snowball starting rolling. now it seems that JTune is looking into this accusation. so like i said however it goes, let’m deal with it. but after reading a lot of comments posted on JTune youtube channel by anti fans, all i can say is this media is a motha, when it comes to making impressions on the publics’ mentality. really it is shameful. i didn’t want to get all technical here but another Cloud in South American did the same thing and posted the definition on her blog. sometimes we have to dig for truth.
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@busybee1982
yup i read the it was actually from SPORT SEOUL ??????? that where the allkpop got their new from and post on their site blog
seriously WHAT THE HELL with the SPORT SEOUL gotta do with this song and rain Busan Women who ever statred this from Sport Seoul should of sdue their @ss of from bring the motha & media all over
trying to get his fan and rain back record what WTF!!
and i agreed about the song it was so DIFFERENT i have said that many and i will said it again and the medoldy are so differnt his lyric song are even differnt the my concern is his bet and the begining simuliar that but that was NO BIG DEAL with and trying to keep this all postive way and it very totally ashameful peoples out their post such a new like to share on their blog for nor sure what exazctly happen they just make worse on theirself and so i hope rain goes and kick their @ss that only if SPORT SEOUL Sstar all this rumor i would be so mad
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NOTE: There is a difference between a composer and a song writter. A composer creates original music using notes, chords and beats. A song writter creates lyrics. One can write a song for lyrics but not compose the music. In this case I believe Bi did indeed write the lyrics for Busan Woman therefore, making it an original lyric wise. Did he compose the music? I think not. (there are some differences in the melody)
Also for all the hoopla going on Saadiq’s camp is not crying foul at this point. From what I understand there is an unknown contributor to this song who could very well be Saadiq. Detroit Woman was recorded in 94 and was not a hit however, Busan Woman is a hit. If Busan Woman was inspired by Detroit Woman it sounds like a win for Saadiq and Rain and is a successful blend of the two cultures.
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I hope this is indeed the case, but you don’t let your reputation take the kind of hits that are out there, unnecessarily. Will & Jada had to issue a joint statement about the state of their marriage, just because the public went nuts about break-up rumors (I must admit that one “shook me up” can’t lie…SMILES). Obviously it was enough of a “roar” that they felt compelled to silence it (within 24 hrs.)before irreparable damage to their careers and family happened. I have read other opinions (regarding Bi) on a couple other sites where some people feel no big deal, this is water off a duck’s back…roll with the punches, others feel like Bi needs to fully address the issue (I’M SURE he will) in an official statement and don’t just let public opinion and accusations keep “wafting” out there. When supposedly the co-writer says he’s never heard of Raphael Saddiq, as if he’s (Raphael) not a big deal just some random musician who’s music happens to sound like theirs, oh well. Well, PLENTY of folks Over Here have heard of him! As a Cloud, we don’t want people disrepecting Bi, well don’t disrepect Raphael’s fans either. This may not have been Anyone’s INTENT, but this is, once again, the Perception. With the internet being what it is today, there’s a lot you can find out about celebrities and music, etc. There’s a lot of Korean musicians I’ve never heard of either, but it doesn’t give me the right to “make it seem” as though I’m turning my nose up at their hard work as if it’s irrelevant and can be set aside just because I don’t know them. Once again, I don’t think this was/is Bi’s INTENT but it’s just a perception Out There and not at Cloud USA. Korean fans may not care, but some American ones do.
But hey, WTH Bi is a grown ass man, fully capable of defending himself……you DO YOU son….handle it…write Raphael that check and all will be well in Bi-land…….No Doubt!
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Interesting take…!
Stephe ^@@^
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It is possible that Rain was not familiar with Raphael Saadiq’s song. Artists have to be able to trust in the honesty of songwriters. Isn’t it unreasonable to expect that every artist should be familiar with every song out there? It is just frustrating to see how many dings to Rain’s reputation have occured over the years. He has had way more than his share of hard luck. All I can do is send my best wishes his way.
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was a misunderstanding ,CLOUD very confident [BUSAN WOMAN]
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what i’m glad all K-Clouds didn’t care bout this article, they said this just another trash article & bullsh#t, & this doesn’t become a big thing in Korea, & please remember as long saadiq side not filing a lawsuit, it’s nothing, just another controversy that raised to ruin rain’s life & career
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Hi, Helen.:) (Right now, I’m assuming something’s been lost in translation and by “article” you’re talking about the articles in the media about Busan Woman, certainly not mine and Terri’s^^ LOL)
I agree with you on one thing… this is just something else that has been fashioned in order to bring Rain down, but there’s no doubt in my mind that he will rise above it and keep on steppin’. He still has dreams to fulfill and rewards to reap, and it’s going to be great watching him succeed!
Stephe ^@@^
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i mean news article from sports seoul not this article 🙂
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I thought so, but it did give me a giggle ^^ 😀
Have a good Thursday.
Stephe ^@@^
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Well, hell’s bells.
I shoulda known that Sports Seoul was involved. What is UP with those people???
Terri :-}
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*ruing the day SportsSeoul was EVER BORN* Gahhhh!
*resisting the urge to burn them in effigy*
Stephe ^@@^
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My thoughts are this: I heard the 2 songs yesterday as soon as i woke up (coz i check for kpop news asap lol) and was like ohhh lord…this is gonna be bad! To me the songs sound quite similar. Yes, there are some differences in style and tone and all that, obviously in lyrics. But the background music is very similar…its like someone listened to Raphael’s song and decided to change it up just enough to not get in trouble for it The thing that kills me is Rain says almost the exact thing that Raphael says at the exact time. I only had to listen to the first few seconds of the song to know that there was gonna be a problem. Was it plagiarism? I have no idea, as that is not my area of expertise. Yes there are tons of songs out in the U.S. Right now that use samples from older songs but they paid for those samples, and if they didn’t pay they get sued with a quickness.
Yes I stand behind Rain and all that. Am I mad at him? Nope, he’s human and we all make mistakes. Just disappointed. I don’t neccessarily assume that he did it on purpose but someone did. Once again I feel like someone in his management is out to get him and he needs to fix that asap. Sighhhh. The thing is that now that he made such a big deal about writing the song himself, he can’t very well back out of it and say he borrowed the idea from Raphael. Hopefully they bought the song from a producer, like SM Entertainment is fond of doing (if you haven’t, just Google almost any Shinee song and you’ll find the original producer’s version. For example, Juliette backing track is also used by an American artist).
I’m sure my stance isn’t a popular one but I listened to the music and heard the similarities and I stand behind my opinion.
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@ Diva,
I’m there with ya lady. My opinion is not too popular either, I was told “sh#t happens.” I agree it does but I would wager it wouldn’t feel too good if you’re the one being sh#t on….know whatta mean? Anyway, I said I was angry and I was, but now that anger has subsided somewhat, and like you I feel disappointment….great disappointment. It has been stated that Raphael Saddiq’s camp has not said/done anything yet. I would go on to wager that they are very much aware of this controversy, but are waiting to see if it’s “worth it” to pursue legal action. I also think at worse Rain and his co-writers may have to “ante up” to Raphael, but the hit to his reputation would just not be a good look. Bleached blonde Sisqo found that out when he had to ante up to the writers of “Livin La Vida Loca” for the ONE LINE he put in his Thong Song (which was WILDLY popular, as we know). Sisqo said (out of his own mouth on Behind the Music: Where Are They Now show) it was a huge blow to him and began a serious of unfortunate events in his career….hence, Where Is He Now??
Will Bi survive this and go on with his career? Hey….No Doubt he will, but just because we “love” him doesn’t mean he can’t “F” up and if he does “F” up it doesn’t mean that the attitude should just be….No Big Deal, sh#t happens. Especially when you are paying people (a helluva lot more money than I make) to make sure this kind of thing doesn’t happen. No, he can’t know every song from every country in the world. However, I would say to him (Bi) whenever ANYONE presents music to you on Whatever Level, ALWAYS view it with a questioning attitude, even if in your heart you trust the source. Because, HONEST mistakes DO happen right alongside Dishonest ones but that doesn’t lessen the impact of the mistake itself.
In THIS country PERCEPTION is a Very BIG Deal. Some celebrities still can’t get the “taint” off of their reputations leveled by mere accusations. Hell, congressmen have been pressured to leave office not necessarily for their policies, but for public Perception of them after questionable deeds came to fore. For Bi’s sake he may want Busan Woman to “quietly” go away, because the bigger the hit his fans make the song, he can SURELY expect a knock on the door from Raphael in the future. However, I am sure he will keep singing the song, since it’s no big deal….right? Well Bi, make that Lesson (#??) learned….check.
STILL Love you….STILL Support you!!!
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It is not enough legally to sue. Certain amount of “sampling” of Raphael Sadiqq’s song has to be contained in Busan Woman and it is not. However, Busan Woman is a hit so it may go to court. in the end Bi will survive. Busan woman is rockin hands down!
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This whole situation made me really sad. Rain with 10 years of experiences on entertainment prove us how professional is. Detroit Girl and Busan Woman have some similarities, but for me (and is my opinion of this case) is not a plagiarism. I’m just waiting bout the opinion of Sadiq and finally ends this bitter moment. ):
I will support JiHoon no matter what, but is so sad this types of news appears when he’s in his concert tour and military service is near of the corner.
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u know i could get enough of this issue
1 i been listenting to rain song Busan Women couple time now !!
2 Raphael’s Detroit Woman…
the city and beat and song are simuliar but as u listening to hole song and chore they are completely totally different how ever i very think that rain is easy to trust anybody around him as usual peoples around and just let thing cough on him for not doing anything or research and release this song have been in USA and now they are attack him over the copy. i just hope he learn to be more aware
with what he doing esp when come to business and composer rain are to with something so easy that he did even have good look i did mean to be bias on him but i hope he should learn all these lesson from being trusted so many peoples and what come back to him is sue law or bad rumor ect… and if this is been sue by i just hope rain can clear this matter as soon he can before it all going worse for sake i am worries about his concert coming 27th and about his MS too peoples have ear all over and mouth spread so fast negatively thing >_< just crossing my finger that he can get this all clean up and again i will supporting him no matter what it happen
beside that i DON'T THINK is a porpose OF WHAT HE did on this Busan Women about to leave to MS he don't loss his fan and all.. and his career is more important then anything LET THEM HANDLE this THAT ALL AM SAYING I SO DONE TALKING HERE !!
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Kongsao Jihoon is not going to lose any fans over this sweetie, its not that big of a deal. If a fan would bale on him for something like this they weren’t true clouds. Rather it is or Is’nt his fault he is more precious then some lyrics or beats.
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@Lotus
yes sweetie i agreed and i with u on this too we will se what happen just kep thing postive and i will love my rain regradless this is his fault or not i am supporting him
anway, have u see MBlaq new release today it was
MBLAQ~fanmade~New Release ~i WANTA~(Run Away)
@Terri & Stephe
check this vid out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJi4NvjwCeU
wowo the BOY are so talent and the song very love it they are so improve it very nice i been listening over and again ekekek
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To me the songs are similar, there are differences but there very subtle. I support Rain however I am disappointed that he didn’t research this enough before singing the song. I don’t think he would purposely plagiarize, I mean with his talent he doesn’t need to do that. Only Rain can give an explanation about what happened there. I do think he needs to be more careful about the people that surround him though.
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Oh, really, I don’t think Rain could do somethin like this on purpose; its gotta be a mistake. He was finally out of the courts, so why get into more controversy? It doesn’t make ANY sense. He’s going into MS in a few months; why get into some bs to complicate his already complicated schedule? Someone made a mistake and I hope that person get out of Rain’s managment soon. I hope to God that Rain can get this mole out before getting into MS so he or she can’t get him into more trouble. Gawd what a mess!! 😦
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only the beginning has the same beat…then rains song pulls away from the beat to a beat tempo….you gotta listen carefully and then you can hear it…peace and blessings
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sorry …from a 2 beat tempo to a 4 beat tempo…clearly not pleag….jus saying…but you have to listen to them both to see the difference…it is there
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Umm, the songs are very, very similar especially Bi’s “baby” in comparison to Sadique’s “lady” those two are most similar. The music appears to be the same except for the tempo but the vocals are different. The style in which the two sing the vocals are quite different. I doubt that Bi had knowledge of the similarites and also a lot of music for songs are sold as tracks rather than original compositions. Perhaps the two artists happenend upon the same track. Not sure what the legalities there are. With Bi being as busy as he is it is possible he put the composition of the song in the hands of someone he trusted and they failed. I certainly hope that it is not true. As with everyone else I’m no expert on music composition.
Also keep in mind the similar trends in music, sometimes you can’t tell the difference from one song to the next musically except for the lead singer and sometimes not even then. Consider all the similar beats that run through the gamut of rap songs theses days. Anyway, I still support you Bi this will certainly fit in the “Lessons Learned” box.
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I don’t think this issue is going to tarnish his career in the long run but I am concern with his concerts now. Is he going to be able to sing the song in his next concert? How he’s going to deal with it? That’s what I am worried about. Sighhh
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Mari,
Really good question. Will he stop singing Busan Woman? I sincerely hope not. I really hope that everything is worked out and he is able to continue singing it. It is, after all, a really lovely song. So sad.
Terri :-}
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uugghh…this is making my head spin, you know all we can do is pray and support Rain on this matter. ❤ Rain always 🙂
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Cherrie,
Sounds like a great plan.
Terri :-}
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but, i want to add this about this subject. when Beyone’ performed at a music awards show recently she used graphics that predicted her as having “angle wings”, the net lit up saying she had plagiarized an artiste in Paris (really?)…my first time to see the “angle wings” was when Jamie King revealed them during Rain’s tour. however, her fans defended her saying “artiste” take their ideas from here and there all the time. Beyonce’ addressed this by admitting she uses the internet to get her ideas. earlier, some may have not paid attention, but she was forced to stop and pull her fragrance which she named Sasha, because the designer VerSace claimed it was to close to their brand name (they acturally took her to court). another time she exposed a photo shoot for some product or other where she literally transformed into a very dark skinned woman, and had to pull that because of the flak back from darker skin females, saying she was portraying an unrealistic image. i just listed these to say, sh#t happens in this industry and many times it’s surely not on purposed. i listened to the songs which start out very similar, but they change as the tune continues. they also don’t have the same meaning. and again, Rain and JTune know more about this topic then i do, so i ain’t mad about it or at him, and i say let the man handle his business. he’s not perfect and i don’t expect him to be. out of 10 years in the business he should know and if he made a mistake, O Well!
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Busy,
I hear you and know about all the Beyonce controversies as well. I’m glad you’re not mad at him, but I am. I’ll get over it, no doubt. Hell, I don’t stay mad at my own damned husband that long and can’t NOBODY piss me off like He can. The issue for me is, if at all possible don’t get your ass in this type of situation in the first place. I also don’t expect him or anyone (myself included) to be perfect. I’m sure this will work out for him, most of these issues usually do. As I stated, he can surely make mistakes, I do understand that, but when you are asking people to PAY for a product from you Whoever You Are….you need to be as above board as you can humanly, possibly be. (My opinions) Hey, we still support and care for our loved ones, even when they upset us. It’s not different for me now with Bi.
Once Again, LOVE BI…SUPPORT BI, will continue to “SMACK THAT” SEXY ASS when he’s exonerated!
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Busybee1982 I agree with what you said below:
“sh#t happens in this industry and many times it’s surely not on purposed. i listened to the songs which start out very similar, but they change as the tune continues. they also don’t have the same meaning. and again, Rain and JTune know more about this topic then i do, so i ain’t mad about it or at him, and i say let the man handle his business. he’s not perfect and i don’t expect him to be. out of 10 years in the business he should know and if he made a mistake, O Well!”
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@Busybee1982
i am with you too and i agreed
“sh#t happens in this industry and many times it’s surely not on purposed. i listened to the songs which start out very similar, but they change as the tune continues. they also don’t have the same meaning. and again, Rain and JTune know more about this topic then i do, so i ain’t mad about it or at him, and i say let the man handle his business. he’s not perfect and i don’t expect him to be. out of 10 years in the business he should know and if he made a mistake, O Well!”
very concern about rain BUSAN WOMEN it all over the new yet it make him look even bad a lot fan come to attack rain song and also the rain and even are dying to after rain about this song too now my concern is his next concret on 27th how he going to sing this song to them and what is going to happen to him i hate his management don’t know how to took care rain they atemp to make his career damage at all time mad me sad like Marisa said similarity but to me is not enough to sa that its plagiarism. I believe in Rain and I know that he would NEVER do something like this but then again, the people at his management are not reliable, at times they
seems to do more damage than good to his career so I say lets wait and see how this new bs develops. Is truly sad that this happens now when he needs a clear seriously
Rain JUST NEED TO GET OUT FROM JTUNE
he never seem to have any good reparation of what ever he do and yet it tense to coz his career all the time and i hope he wake up about this look at this way rain it a type of person and a very determine person too if he wanted to do something right and success he will make to his career we all know right? and i BELIVE that rain WOULD NEVER EVER did such a propose think just in a flash and then rule his caeerer not for all 10-years he been . but if rain did make his mistake i will still suppporting rain and back up for him coz all this was not come to propose periods and my though right now is his fan base they keep coming and said *SH#T* to that song and yet another frecking new also after him i do belive can handle all this matter but his fan just to speechlesssssss RIGHT NOW!!
btw… i jusT LEAVE Jtune a message for those are his fan please goes to Jtune and supporting rain thank all i don’t see nasty thing about his song and comment either matter fact i love BUSAN WOMEN it already a hit in his chart but thing just happen and get rain & makeup and chorus of Raphael Saadiq’s ‘Detroit Girl‘ to be honest u all
I WANT RAIN get out of JTUNE right now!! his business and career never seem to good at all THIS IS SO SAD i hope he can handle in his next concert around the conner 😦
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I have a question to ask that maybe I should know but I donot know so I am going to ask. Stephe or Terri when Rain released this song as a digital single was it released free? Was this song released as a free song to his fans?
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Flower,
No, it was not released free, from legal sources anyway. I purchased the song myself from Soribada, via my subscription service. The song was also offered from Korean music outlets as well, which are similar to iTunes. I just can’t think of their names at the moment.
So, to answer your question, yes, Rain did “sell” this song. He even mentioned on his Twitter somewhere that he would be getting royalties from it…at least I think it was on his Twitter that I saw that comment from him. Anyone remember?
Terri :-}
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Ok thanks for the information.
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hummm, i say let Rain and JTune Camp handle it. after that whole plagerism stuff with MBLAQ’s “Oh Yeah”, by a So. American singer, i assume they know what plagerism really is.
i’m off to listen to Pusan Lady…i love the darn song.
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I don’t know about music, I am not an expert or anything but to me those songs are different. Rain’s song goes at a faster rythm, the background sounds sounds different and we know the lyrics are different too. Is true that there is a similarity but to me is not enough to saythat its plagiarism. I believe in Rain and I know that he would NEVER do something like this but then again, the people at his managment are not reliable, at times they
seems to do more damage than good to his career so I say lets wait and see how this new bs develops. Is truly sad that this happens now when he needs a clear head to deal with the MS. I am sooo mad at his managment!! Ugh!!! >.< They are a band of incompetent people!!
But again, I heard both songs and to me, they are very different but with a similar style.
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Mari,
I’m not an expert either when it comes to writing music. However, the songs are quite similar. A person would have to be deaf not to hear the similarities. I must reiterate I SUPPORT Ji-Hoon, however, if I was putting music out for the public I wouldn’t want my song to be so damned close to another one that I have to explain upbeats, downbeats and A flats vs. B flats in comparison to another song. You may as well say it’s a cover of an old song and call it a day. Once again, I don’t think Ji-Hoon would Purposely do anything wrong, but the people he chooses to collaborate with….(????? IDK). There’s some SHADY as hell shenanigans going on. Somebody HAD TO KNOW this would cause controversy. These are not stupid people. For those of you who are parents, it’s like when you question your kid about some suspected “foul” behavior and they start their explanation to you by saying “See wha had happened was……” (*parent standing there tapping foot and rolling eyes*).
I’m waiting with bated breath like everyone else for the official explanation, but Ji-Hoon has thoroughly pissed me off, for the first time since becoming a Cloud. My anger is at him for putting himself in this position, only. He should know better. Yes he can make mistakes, but Noona is angry with you Honey Bi! (SMILES)
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We have to be realistic ..in the heart of you fans you are human and much loved^^.. that will never change!… in the word of the law… the process and time will tel….
Thank you Terri 🙂 and Stephe
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Stephe and Terri after reading your commentary again, I too am pissed at Bi, still supporting him, but pissed nonetheless. It wouldn’t be so baffling, if Bi Didn’t KNOW R&B music. Surely he would have heard of Raphael Saddiq if not by the name Saddiq then maybe from the group Tony, Tony, Tony. That’s who Raphael started with and they are not so old school that newer artists would not know of them. Also, being from a different country is not an excuse either, not when you are in a business that generates millions. You damned well better know who/what you’re working with. Anyway, I’m done venting.
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I’m wondering about how this could affect his national tour… oh JiHoon sometimes you give me gray hairs from all the worrying I do, but I like you still! We got your back! Even if I have to dye my hair… 😦
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A great article Ladies, and Oh Geeze they are incredibly close. This does not change my opinion of Rain if this turns out as a valid case.
There is one thing I find interesting and tend to lean toward them knowing there was a question of it’s validity. The record was delayed in coming out did they have the song on the record originally and take it off? If they knew it “might” be questionable why would they go ahead and release it as a single.
The only bonous on this is that it was caught so quickly and that is was not part of a record that should Rain and J Tune be found guilty the costs would be minor compared to if it was put out with the record and became a big hit.
My only real question is “IF” they knew it was and issue why would they go ahead an release it anywise? Did they want to give a little shadow over Rain’s mostly unscared reputation?
Side note: Will he be able to use it for the remainder of his tour now that there is a question? And I think he Jinxed himself with that little speech he made about his previous troubles and about “walking the walk” etc..
I have no doubt Rain will come out of this only slightly tarnished and I still love the guy for everything he’s accomplished and all of his talents. Rain AJa Aja Fighting!! (or something like that)
Dot
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Great commentary Stephe and Terri, it’s exactly how I feel. I will state that I am still supporting Ji-Hoon, but this Is Not a pretty picture. I do feel like artists really need to do a thorough background check, not just on the music presented to them (that’s a given) but on the individuals they choose to work alongside.
Ji-Hoon you are TOO DAMN TRUSTING dear, it’s time to get HARD CORE when it comes to your reputation. You are poised to have a big career in the States and someone (it’s so plain to see) does NOT want that to happen for you. Bi it’s time to CLEAN HOUSE my friend and start anew (completely) from TOP to BOTTOM. Check, re-check and Check Again the credentials of those who want to work with you and vice versa. Now if you Did Do what you are being accused of, you Should Pay for it, plain and simple. However, if you were duped and presented material, you are too “seasoned” an entertainer to be caught up in something this sinister, it is IMPERATIVE you become more vigilant. All ANYONE has is their good name.
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amen!
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i agree with you my sist…Open your eyes my angel Jihoon ^^ i still love you!
kiseees
@@ Lane
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Hear hear!
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First, I want to say I am a fan of Raphael Saadiq. I Have loved many of his songs. Secondly, anything I say I am not saying it because I am being biase towards Rain. Because if he did break the law he has to pay for what he did. Also, I am not an expert at musical plagirizing nor do I know what Rain really did. I will say I have never heard of Raphael’s song Detroit Girl. I have listened to the Detroit Girl and Busan Women song from the videos posted hear over, over, over, and over and some. I have concluded that there is a slight similariy in the music. However, I hear differences in Rain’s song compared to his song. I donot think the songs sound so similar that it should be considered plagerism. I am just going off of what I hear with my own two ears. I hear enough differences for me to say the songs are not totally alike enough. I am going to believe he did not plagerize because it would make know sense for him to do so at this point in his career and time in his life. I am going to continue to support Rain and believe he did not do this. However, like I said if he did the crime he has to pay for the crime. I hope this all works out in his favor soon like it did for Lee Hyori according to what I read on Aallkpop site.
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I have a question to ask that maybe I should know but I donot know so I am going to ask. Stephe or Terri when Rain released this song as a digital single was it released free? Was this song released as a free song to his fans?
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My dear Baby Bi. we will support you always. But i have to say, this is not looking good.
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Beautifully said Stehpe! And for the record yes I’m backing my man JiHoon.
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same here !!!
i will always back our rain
and if this are took to court i am serious will stands with him and be by his side too side note: the man will always stand STRONG and clouds and fan united for him !! 🙂
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btw…. i just check the youtube more and more fans are comment to his song say give rain bad lyric and say he copy of his song >_< how Jtune ????????????
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kongsao, sister I’m not reading anything outside of cloudusa, after yesterday I refuse to get caught up in what others say. I know how I feel and believe. People love to talk crap and for all the Rain hater they can go straight to hell……
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i already state my word on other comment i am losssing my sentence to say anymore about this i’m concern about his been sue or not but i know fait alway be their for rain but one thing i know for sure he DID NOT plagiarism? We don’t have a clue. Rain and/or his co-composer plagiarized “Detroit Girl.”
If the law determines that they are guilty of plagiarism, then Rain and his co-composer will suffer the consequences I am stand with him and will defense his trust coz rain is an INNOCENT and honest to his work this is so sad how he trying to give all his fans such a surprise gift it trun somebody been pull rain over this my matter is i don’t how all his fan going to face the fact here but for sure like me andn restr who are anti-base fan of rain should alway belive what he do that tall i’m saying just going to let rain and what ever take care of it gossip or none gossip alway cross his ear and new art always >_<
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Remember, Rain? you mentioned about this song how it came out at Busan concert. you already told us (public) the truth how this song made. everyone check the Busan concert mv riight before he sang this beautiful song ‘Busan girl’. We are here always no matter what, Rain. you will get over this as well like you did in the past.. Santokki!!!!!! ^^
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with 10++ years of experience & dozen of hit songs that wrote by himself, he already prove that he had great credibility & reputation, no one will believe this issue, except all his antis, besides that this issue was raised by Sport Seoul, we know this news agency had bad history with rain’s life & career & they already loss @ the court last time they against Rain for sixtofive case, who knows what they want right now from Rain..Clouds always believe & support Rain
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AMEN _!!
and i am with i don’r belive rain ever do such thing and yet
he would loss any of his caeeere over copy and steal the song unless not anti fan base of rain then they well belive such new like this
with 10++ years of experience & dozen of hit songs that wrote by himself, he already prove that he had great credibility & reputation, no one will believe this issue, except all his antis, besides that this issue was raised by Sport Seoul, we know this news agency had bad history with rain’s life & career & they already loss @ the court last time they against Rain for sixtofive case, who knows what they want right now from Rain..Clouds always believe & support Rain
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Great editorial. My thoughts exactly… Sighhh…
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Thanks, Deev. *sad smile*
Stephe ^@@^
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Hello Diva,
Haven’t seen you ’round these parts for a while. (SMILES)
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Hey u! I know right? I’ve been on twitter lots and posted here and there. I’ll be on more often after my new computer arrives. 🙂
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YAY!
^@@^
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